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best of both worlds.. Imported HF but Cool terrain?

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best of both worlds.. Imported HF but Cool terrain?

Postby metalliandy » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:29 pm

Hey all,
I have a problem..
I have a number of islands that must retain the same shape as the HF i have with a couple of specific places that must be mountains and cliffs and a few lakes. (the lakes must remain the same sort of shape and in the same place)
The problem is that when i create a design map using the sliders it destroys my land mass and creates loads of smaller islands around the main landmass.
Is there any way I can keep my rough island shape, i don't mind slight erosion and the like but i do want all the cool random terrain to be created around the areas than must remain the same.
I want alot of varying land on this island and erosion to the sea etc.


Is there any way i can paint areas to have specific features without ruining my island shape?

sort of like a transparency lock in photoshop.

Everything can be randomly created but the lakes, but they all must be in a particular place.

Any ideas how i can randomly create this?
Also i am unsure of the design map sliders...maybe i am doing something wrong?

And i have tried the design map pencil but i find the island shape suffers somewhat :(


Did any of that make sense?
lol
Thanks all :)
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Postby metalliandy » Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:03 pm

No ideas?
this is killing me...lol
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Postby demi » Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:59 pm

Humm.. Thinking on this awhile I come up with nothing. I don't think you can generate a terrain on top of another right now so when you make a new terrain the old one is gone. If you are talking the overlay, I can't help much since I never used this feature.

There is the copy paste function but again I am not sure that is what you want either.
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Postby Aaron » Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:52 am

Hi Metalliandy,

Sorry, I can't think of a way you can do this with the current version...other than to use copy/paste, but that would require a lot of brushwork afterwards to smooth the inevitable seams.

The next version supports multiple heightfields, so it may be possible to have some brush to blend from one map to another. I'll put it on the to-do list.

Cheers,
Aaron.
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Postby metalliandy » Sun Apr 29, 2007 9:23 pm

Thanks for the replys guys:)

@aaron

Would you be able to implement a feature where you could import a shaped blank height field (say 50% grey) with a shape and randomise the terrain whilst keeping the basic shape within a tolerance for erosion etc?
Such as a island in the example
Image

I also think the transparency lock idea would be cool for the design map pencil would be really useful

:)
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Postby 3DUser » Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:36 pm

Your question:

Is there any way i can paint areas to have specific features without ruining my island shape?


Is something like what is on this location what you had in mind?
http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthr ... nt+texture

If it is, the Direct X importer into Blender has not worked for me lately. I don't know if there is an obj exporter for L3DT yet. I've seen it mentioned.
Perhaps UV mapping with a GIMP or Photoshop image is another way.

There may be other ways that I just don't know.

Just some ideas for consideration.
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Postby metalliandy » Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:29 pm

3DUser wrote:Your question:

Is there any way i can paint areas to have specific features without ruining my island shape?


Is something like what is on this location what you had in mind?
http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthr ... nt+texture

If it is, the Direct X importer into Blender has not worked for me lately. I don't know if there is an obj exporter for L3DT yet. I've seen it mentioned.
Perhaps UV mapping with a GIMP or Photoshop image is another way.

There may be other ways that I just don't know.

Just some ideas for consideration.


thanks for the reply :)

When i said paint, i meant the geometry, such as mountains and the like, not colour. but nice ideas though
:)
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Postby Aaron » Tue May 01, 2007 1:57 am

Hi Metalliandy,

Some sort of transparency lock won't work with the design/inflate algorithm. The nearest thing we can do blend the output from that algorithm with your pre-defined heightfield using a blendmap. This can be done now either using an appropriately-written Python script via the cdPython plugin, or by writing a new plugin to do this.

If no-one else picks this up I'll put it on my to-do list for L3DT 2.5a.

Cheers,
Aaron.
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Postby metalliandy » Tue May 01, 2007 5:46 pm

Sweet :)
That would help me alot
Thanks aaron!
:)
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Re:

Postby ALuomala » Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:56 pm

aaron wrote:The next version supports multiple heightfields, so it may be possible to have some brush to blend from one map to another. I'll put it on the to-do list.


I have been trying to find a way to combine 2 heightfields, and I have a feeling that what you indicate above isn't the same idea that I am having: I would like to take 2 heightfields of the same area (same size, resolution, etc) and combine them (or use boolean functions on them).

This is for the military simulation package VBS2. The way that VBS2 deals with water is that a module is run that cuts out the river (it alters the terrain) and then a separate water heightfield is created (basically, it fills in the void created by the terrain modification, and drops down a set distance for good measure.... I like to think of it like a jello (gelatin) mold). The issue I am having is that I would like to have the one heightfield editable (the terrain heighfield) and the other (water heightfield) only viewable (ghosted/greyed out). I have terrain areas that need to be adjusted, but I need to have the water viewable, so that I can quickly view my results. Otherwise, within the constraints of the VBS2 terrain editing software (Visitor4 (V4)), you can only see the terrain: the water is only viewable after the map has been compiled and the simulation has been started.

I have tried something fairly low-tech, using GlobalMapper: I combine the two separate heightmaps using a boolean function (union???), and then take the resulting shape, colorize it, and export it as an image (I think of this as an oil-spill, or the high tide mark on the terrain). I then overlay this imagery onto the satellite imagery (texture map) and then try to adjust the terrain (within V4) where I can see that the terrain was poking through the water. This is a very time consuming method, and it (the terrain heightfield) obviously isn't updated as it is fixed: I would have to go through the complete process over and over again, until I have only water where I want water.

I have been trying, very unsuccessfully, to start with one heighfield, and then import another heightfield (via Import Layer > Heightfield). When I try to edit the imported heightfield (in HF2 format), it indicates that there aren't any tools for this. How would one use an imported heightfield then? Is it possible to accomplish anything along the lines of what I outlined above?

Thanks for your time on this,

Allan
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Re: best of both worlds.. Imported HF but Cool terrain?

Postby CBFASI » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:31 pm

Sounds simliar to what I hope to be doing with this tool

Obtained a 90m DEM, exported to a 10m res 2048x2048
Produced a contour based mesh drape for 10m res 2048x2048

Of course the DEM heightfield is smoother as all it just does not have the orignal 10m resolution.
However the contour based drape is good where the details matter but is rather poor on shallow slopes it levels between points across valleys.

This is a real location and as such detailed elevation data res is not available to the general public and I have to stay in that realm for legal and security reasons.
Hope is to have the best of both worlds in essence, the location is a volcanic island so the details really bring out the craters but the other ares look crap, and of course the DEM has the realistic slopes.

For interest this is targeting the public gaming version of the VBS2, ArmA2 using the v3 (oh I dream of v4 access!).

Import map layer does not work, and the Import --> Merge Heightmaps does nothing.

All my source data is xyz as I know it will hold the vertical data over the 1100m range, but about to investigate 16bit png due to this forum.. (might end up merging in ps worst case!)
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Re:

Postby ALuomala » Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:25 pm

aaron wrote:Hi Metalliandy,

Some sort of transparency lock won't work with the design/inflate algorithm. The nearest thing we can do blend the output from that algorithm with your pre-defined heightfield using a blendmap. This can be done now either using an appropriately-written Python script via the cdPython plugin, or by writing a new plugin to do this.

If no-one else picks this up I'll put it on my to-do list for L3DT 2.5a.

Cheers,
Aaron.


Aaron, I apologise for dredging up this old post, but would you be able to take a look at my previous post (above, plus what CBFASI discusses), as well as clarify if there has been a "blendmap" plug-in created (or similar functionality) to blend the pre-defined heightfield (i.e a real-world terain, via DTED, etc) with the design/inflate algorith. This touches on another issue/post that I have in mind (I am trying to come up with a workflow that allows modifications to real world terrains using L3DT, other than basic brushwork).

Thanks for your time on this,

Allan
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Re: best of both worlds.. Imported HF but Cool terrain?

Postby ALuomala » Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:32 pm

Aaron, I took a look through the development plan for 3.0 and noticed that the "atCalc_HF_Blend, to to combine the HF with a 2nd heightfield using a blend map." is on the 'To Do' list.

I suppose asking what the ETA for vers 3.0 would be out of the question, yeah?!?! "When it's done.....". That's OK: you're doing a great job on a complex program, so I'll give you a break 8)

Allan
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Re: best of both worlds.. Imported HF but Cool terrain?

Postby Aaron » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:29 am

Ho Guys,

I have included a masked blending function in the latest developmental build of L3DT Pro (v2.9 build 7, 28th of Jan 2011). I am yet to build a 'proper' user interface for this, but I have cobbled together a basic interface using ZeoGraph, the results of which are shown below:

Input heightfields #1 (left) and #2 (right):
Image Image

Input mask map:
Image

Output heightfield:
Image

To use this blender, you will first need to generate two files:
  1. A HFZ heightfield file containing the overlay heightfield (i.e. heightfield #2 in the above example), which is to be blended with your project's heightfield (heightfield #1).
  2. A mask map file, in either the BMP or PNG formats. Greyscale please. Black means heightfield #1 dominates, white means heightfield #2 dominates.
Once you have these files ready:
  • Load your project in L3DT.
  • Select the 'Graphs->BlendHeightfields' menu option.
  • The graph will then ask you for the blending heightfield file (in the HFZ format) and the mask map (in BMP/PNG). Once you have selected the files, the graph will start blending, and when done, it will re-draw the heightfield in the main view.
Some further notes:
  • If you do not like the output, you can revert the changes using CTRL+Z, the 'Edit->Undo' menu option, or the undo toolbar button.
  • The size of the heightfield overlay does not need to match the size of the project's heightfield, and nor does the mask, as these maps are automatically resized by the graph.
  • The graph is configured to use a masked 'replace' operation. With minor tinkering in the graph editor you can select one of the other supported combiner functions, including 'add', 'subtract', 'max', 'min' or 'multiply'.
  • I intend to roll this calculation into the 'MergeHeightmaps' plugin so that the option is available in L3DT Standard Edition too (which doesn't include ZeoGraph).

If you find any bugs or would like to recommend changes, please let me know.

Best regards,
Aaron.
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Re: best of both worlds.. Imported HF but Cool terrain?

Postby CBFASI » Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:51 pm

This seems fantastic and will definately allow for the sort of project I am working on, allowing best of each map to be merged and producing a good balance.

I shall be experimenting over the weekend
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